About Today We Tried:
Today We Tried is a parenting podcast brought to you by Colugo where Christy, Colugo’s Chief Parent Officer, chats with guests about milestone moments in parenthood and the particular joys and challenges of being a parent right now. Listen for diverse and relatable stories, advice and reassurance that “you got this!”
Meet the Guest
In this episode of Today We Tried, Christy is joined by Matthew Ramsey, Chief Development Officer at Family Equality, who shares his story of fostering to adopt 2 brothers with his husband.
Links to Learn More
- Learn more about Colugo by clicking here.
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- Learn more about the Fulton v. City of Philadelphia case here.
- Learn more about the Every Child Deserves a Family Act here.
More Outspoken Voices Episodes
Episode Transcript
Emily McGranahan:
Welcome to Outspoken Voices, a podcast by and for LGBTQ+ families. I’m Emily McGranahan director of Corporate and Foundation Relations with Family Equality. Dakota is off working on or some really cool projects that I’m sure we’ll be sharing more of in the coming months. So November was National Adoption Month, which felt extra important with the Supreme Court hearing testimony for the case, Fulton vs The City of Philadelphia at the start of November. And this is a case that could have big impacts on LGBTQ+ adoptive and foster parents and young people in care. So today on Outspoken Voices, we’re actually playing an episode from “Today We Tried” a parenting podcast by Colugo about milestone moments in parenthood and the joys and challenges of being a parent. And this episode features Family Equality’s own Matthew Ramsey, our Chief Development Officer who adopted two brothers from foster care with his husband. So Matthew shares his experience, some really helpful advice and tips for allies and for people who are considering being foster or adoptive parents. And he also discusses the work that Family Equality is doing to protect the people in the child welfare system and LGBTQ+ caregivers. So…enjoy!
Christy MacGregor:
Hi, I’m Christy. And this is, “Today We Tried” a parenting podcast brought to you by Colugo where we talk about big moments in parenthood and break them down to make them feel less daunting and more doable. I’m a mom of three and Chief Parent Officer and general counsel at Colugo. Very excited to be here today with Matthew Ramsey. He joined Family Equality as Chief Development Officer in February, 2018. As someone who built his family through foster and adoption, which is what we’re going to be talking about today. The mission and work of Family Equality are not just his passion they’re his life. Overcoming anti LGBTQ+ discrimination in the child welfare system and beyond, drive Matthew’s work every day. He holds onto the hope that one day we will succeed in realizing full, lived and legal equality for all LGBTQ families and individuals. Thank you so much for being here. Matthew, how are you doing today?
Matthew Ramsey:
Oh, well how much time do you have?
Christy MacGregor:
I know this is like a very fraught question, now. There’s a lot here.
Matthew Ramsey:
Yeah, no overall I’m pretty good. Especially in this crazy COVID world and you know, all things considered the fact that my family and I have been in one house for…What now? Eight months solid. Um, we’re doing pretty well. I can’t complain.
Christy MacGregor:
That’s right. It’s amazing that it’s eight months now. I have my wonderful nephew was born the day that the kids, my kids school kind of shut down, like lockdown started in Philadelphia where I am and he just turned eight months, like over the weekend. And I was like, wow, I can’t believe it’s been eight months. And he’s obviously such a bright spot of all of this, but it’s kind of wild to think about how long we’ve been here and where we are right now.
Matthew Ramsey:
Yeah. And it’s so crazy that as hard as 2020 has been, it’s, it’s almost over. Yeah. And I think that’s a good thing. Time is so weird right now.
Christy MacGregor:
Time is weird. But one thing that is true of time right now is we’re in November, and November is national adoption month. So I’m really excited to talk to you. As I’ve mentioned in the intro, you grew your family through foster and adoption and you know, I’d love to hear your story. And then also just some advice you have to share for parents who are, or parents to be, who are thinking about growing their family in this way. So if we could just start, if you could share a little bit about your family and how this journey started for you.
Matthew Ramsey:
First of all, thank you so much for inviting me to be here. Really, really appreciate the opportunity to chat with you. And also of course, the support that Colugo, um, has provided Family Equality, uh, through the years and just love working with you and, and again, thrilled to be here. So thank you. And, um, so just a little bit of background on my story or my family’s story. So my husband and I actually lived in Ohio for quite a few years and we moved to the Seattle, Washington area back in 2011. And we moved here primarily for his career, but we also knew that moving to Washington state was going to be a much more friendly and quite frankly, easy environment for us to try to form a family. And so, pretty soon after we moved to Washington, we started working with an agency in Seattle to go through the foster, to adopt process. We took our time to get licensed. And then we took our time after we were licensed to accept a placement. But in May of 2014, we accepted the placement of two biological brothers who were ages three and four at the time. And I will tell you that going from not having any children to having three and four year old high energy, probably somewhat traumatized boys was quite an experience. It was shell shocking, but also at the same time, it was, you know, the most incredible, magical experience I can, I could ever imagine. And so, uh, like I said, they were placed with us in May of 2014 and then in October, 2015, we were fortunate enough to be able to legally adopt them. And so, uh, it’s been just an incredible journey. They are 10 and nine now, actually our oldest son will be 11 next month, which is crazy.
Christy MacGregor:
Wow. Yeah.
Matthew Ramsey:
And, um, you know, and on the one hand, when I think about it, like it’s been six and a half years and that doesn’t sound like a big number, but at this point in time, I can’t imagine…it’s hard to imagine life without them. And so it’s…I think that’s how probably every parent feels it’s like, what was life like before these children came along, but they’re in fifth and fourth grade, and I’m thankful that they are as old as they are because going through this COVID crisis and remote learning, they’re fairly self-sufficient and they’re doing pretty well.
Christy MacGregor:
Wonderful. Well, can I ask, did you know, from the start, did you and your husband know “We wanted foster to adopt,to grow our family from the start?” Or how did you decide on the foster to adopt path?
Matthew Ramsey:
Quite honestly it was finance. Finances driven. Because going through something like surrogacy or something like along those lines is really expensive. And when we started working with the agency in Seattle, their name is Amara. We looked at the possibility of a relinquished infant, and there are two challenges with that, that we faced. One of course is the financial implications because that’s much, much more expensive. It’s not that those children don’t go into the foster system. You’re not working with the state, you’re working directly with an agency, but there are high costs associated with that. And then also it can take quite a bit longer when you’re working, when you’re waiting for a relinquished infant. And of course, a lot of that is up to the mother, the biological mother and their desires in terms of the home they’re looking for, for their baby and things along those lines. And so we ultimately felt that going foster to adopt was the way that made sense for us, as well as hopefully we could provide a safe and loving home for a child or children in need.
Christy MacGregor:
It’s amazing. You were able to foster and then adopt brothers and they were able to stay together. And you were able to do that. Was that in your head when you first signed up that you might go from, from zero to two right away?
Matthew Ramsey:
Well, we were open to siblings and we said that we were open to siblings, but the funny story is they kept sending us sibling pairs where it was a pretty big age gap. And oftentimes the older child would have…the agency would let us know that there were a lot of behavioral challenges and things along those lines. And then the younger child would be a baby. And it just felt like so much to wrap my head around. And as a matter of fact, I actually sent an email to our agency about two weeks before we heard about the boys that we got saying, please stop sending a sibling pairs because I just, I don’t think that it’s going to work for us. And so we think we’d rather just focus on an individual child and thankfully they ignored my request and sent me our two boys. And, uh, here are
Christy MacGregor:
Oh, amazing. And I’m sure you have found that over time, as you say, they’re pretty self-sufficient now. And they also being that close in age, you know, I have twins who, I think it’s probably a similar thing where it is such an amazing thing to have those siblings so close and that connection between them and especially right now with COVID where we, you know, the family unit is the, is the social circle. It’s wonderful that they have each other.
Matthew Ramsey:
Absolutely. So our boys are 14 months apart. And because of that, of course, there’s a lot of sibling rivalry and they argue and fight, but it’s not, it’s not too bad. And the flip side of that is of course, really since day one, they’ve been good playmates. They’ve been able to entertain each other, take a little bit of the burden off of us as parents, and now, especially with COVID and everything they’re really able to be there for each other. And I would say, you know, I think the younger, they are the harder it is when they’re close in age, that’s at least my experience and my impression, but I would say the, the positives outweigh the negatives. Yes. You do have some battles you have to contend with. But overall I think having two kids so close in age, like yours being twins or being 14 months apart, something like that is really a win for the parents.
Christy MacGregor:
Yeah. That’s what I always say to new parents of twins. You know, it can be really overwhelming with, with newborns, but as they’ve grown, it was very helpful for us to do at first because we didn’t know anything else. I think if you have one and then twins are like a little more shocked, but I, that is the payoff is as they get older, you have that built-in playmate. So it’s the thing to look forward to.
Matthew Ramsey:
I would just say, and the one benefit, the one definite benefit to, for us being placed with three and four-year-olds, there were no sleepless nights. Like we didn’t have those infant nights where you’re…where you’re up all night. And I can’t even imagine what twins it’s like one baby falls asleep and then the other one’s up? So that was good.
Christy MacGregor:
That is good. I’m glad you, you know, it’s a, it’s a proving ground. We, I think, I think honestly, I don’t fully remember it. Like I was just, your brain is…Later, you can’t really look back and put yourself back there and you’re just like, “Oh dear oh me oh myOh, okay. Like somehow it happens. They’re still alive. We made it through.” So it’s good. All right. Let’s turn to a few more specifics on advice that you would share to parents thinking about fostering to adopt. The first tip you have here is patience.
Matthew Ramsey:
Yeah. And what I mean by that is really just take your time through the process. And, you know, at least in Washington, and I think it’s the case with most states, you can kind of go through the licensing process. If you’re going to become a foster parent, or if you want to adopt, you can take that at your own pace. And so you have a lot of courses need to take, you need to write home study, you need to interview caseworkers and social workers, things along those lines. So it’s, it’s sort of whatever pace you want. But the key with the patience, I think, is when you are licensed and you’re waiting to be placed with a child or a sibling pair or siblings, I think there are some folks I’ve talked to who have felt that if they didn’t take the first child or children available to them, then the agency will say, “Oh, well, then they don’t want to be parents.We’re not going to place them with kids.” That’s not the case. And the agency is looking for the best possible—and especially if it’s foster to adopt, or if it’s an adoption—they’re looking for the best possible longterm scenario, that’s going to be successful. And so for us, we were licensed in November of 2013 and we didn’t get our—I’m sorry, November of 2012! And we didn’t get placed until 2014. So it was about a year and a half, but we, we said no to a lot of placements before we finally accepted our two boys. And it was because we wanted to make sure it was the right fit, because just imagine if it’s not the right fit and you discover that a few months after you’ve been placed with your children, and then they have to go back into the system to go into another home. That’s just one additional layer of trauma that you’re putting on to those children. And so the more likely it is to be successful the better. And so, like I said, we waited, we were intentional about waiting. And when we were finally placed with our boys, it was the right fit. And now we’re a forever family.
Christy MacGregor:
And did you know from the start, when they were placed with you that it would be foster to adopt, or is it initially like a foster placement? And then over time you knew, “Okay, like this can be a permanent home.”
Matthew Ramsey:
We didn’t know for sure that they were what they often say “legally free,” meaning they are not connected to birth parents or other relatives. However, we felt there was a strong chance that they wouldn’t be reunified. The agency had sort of indicated there was a strong chance. Oftentimes the agency will kind of classify children as to whether they’re high risk, low risk, or kind of medium risk of reunification. And our boys, we felt were relatively low risk. And ultimately we were able to obviously adopt them. And I, and I do want to be thoughtful and careful about those types of conversations because, you know, while my husband and I were obviously anxious to form a family and foster and hopefully adopt children, there’s a lot of pain that also is part of this equation because, you know, the boys’ biological parents lost their children and others. They had been taken care of by a grandparent at one point in time who obviously also lost them. We did, in turn, do an open adoption agreement with their biological father, but it’s…I just want to be careful to acknowledge the fact that even though for us as adoptive parents, uh, things went well and we now have a family, it’s obviously very difficult for other people who, who are, who love the boys.
Christy MacGregor:
Of course. Yeah. It sounds like you and your husband throughout the process have been very thoughtful about everyone involved and everyone’s heart through this process.
Matthew Ramsey:
Yeah, one of the things that we did during, uh, we had an adoption party after we adopted them that day and we hung up a bunch of pictures around the house and keep in mind, the boys were five and four at this point in time. So we hung up a bunch of pictures like on the clothes and clothes lines throughout the house. We included pictures of, uh, their birth parents, because we want them to not lose sight of where they came from, who they are, all of those things. And obviously being two men, there’s not, there’s no question that we did not have them biologically, but even if we could have hidden that, that’s not something we would want to do because we want to celebrate who they are and where they came from.
Christy MacGregor:
Your next piece of advice here is to inform your employer of your situation and ask for parental leave. If you are placed with a foster child or foster children.
Matthew Ramsey:
Yeah. The reason I put that on there is I think a lot of companies or organizations are doing a great job of looking at their parental leave policies and procedures and ensuring that, you know, especially in the case of LGBTQ families, that if they adopt a child, that they get that parental leave. But what I would like to encourage companies or employers to think about is that for foster to adopt parents, when you adopt the child, that’s not actually when you need the time off. It’s when you’re placed with that child. So if you look at my case, for example, we were placed with the boys a year and a half before we adopted them and had—now of course I was working for a different organization at the time—but I never got any parental leave nor did my husband, but had we gotten it, it would have been really nice to have when, uh, we were placed with the boys because those first few weeks were certainly chaotic. My parents came and visited and helped, which was huge, huge for us, but had we gotten leave that would have been the time to do it. So I would just, you know, for, for folks who are considering foster to adopt that’s something to check with your employer and see if that’s an option or see if that’s something they could consider for you.
Christy MacGregor:
Yeah. That’s really smart and good to think about ahead of time. If you can, if you are at the kind of the start of this process, you can start advocating for that early. And the last piece of advice you have here kind of dovetails perfectly into that is building your support system for yourself and your children. So it sounds like your parents were part of that, but making sure you have that, that village around you as you’re taking this on.
Matthew Ramsey:
Yeah, so our boys right before they were placed with us, they were actually placed with two women. And this is actually quite a success story because the women for a variety of reasons, ultimately determined that they were not the longterm home for these two boys—one of which…one reason is because they had a biological daughter who is around the age, in between the ages, of our two boys. What we did, however, is—once the boys came to live with us—is we’ve maintained a relationship with the women and their daughter. And to the point that we, when we adopted the boys, we asked them to be their guide parents. And we have gone to Hawaii and Fiji, and we’ve gone on a number of trips with them. And we see them all the time. And really our perspective in that is there’s no such thing as too much love. And the more people who love our boys the better. And so they were with those women for a number of months during their journey to us. And we wanted as much as possible to keep that relationship going.
Christy MacGregor:
That’s wonderful. And I love that you guys have done so much traveling together too. Yeah.
Matthew Ramsey:
Yeah. Super fun. Wish I could travel, right now.
Christy MacGregor:
Yeah. I know. I know. I’m just like, let’s talk more about, imagining that we could travel again. So I’m in Philly and we’ve been very spoiled with a very warm fall and we’re just starting to really feel the cold weather coming. So I’d love to think of a beach. So let’s talk a little bit about some things you’d recommend avoiding, and this has all been great advice. The first thing you have, we’ve talked about a little bit is avoiding that feeling that you need to kind of pick the first child who’s available to you. Because if you don’t say yes that first time, I could totally see myself having that feeling. But to try to be picky about what will work for you and your family. Did you and your husband talk in advance kind of about what you were looking for or was it just like when you had a potential placement, you would just be honest with yourselves about what would work.
Matthew Ramsey:
We really wanted to kind of assess each individual situation differently. And of course, you know, you don’t always know. You know, when you’re getting referrals from an agency, it’s sometimes you have to kind of read between the lines to really try to understand, you know, who the child is, what, what they’ve experienced, what trauma they’ve maybe gone through those sorts of things. And I think there’s some guilt that can come into play. If you’re saying no to someone, because you’re thinking, “Oh my goodness, this child really needs a home.” And if your intention is only to be a foster parent and foster that child for a set period of time, that’s fine because I think that’s a different scenario because then you’re really trying to be a respite home for them. But if your goal is to really hopefully make this a forever situation, I just, I encourage people to really focus on what is going to be right for them to make it a long-term successful placement. And that I think is where it can take time and it can frustrating, but I think it’s worth it in the long run.
Christy MacGregor:
And the second piece of advice you have here is to not second guess yourself, because relationships will be built over time.
Matthew Ramsey:
Yeah. So a number of years ago, we, hopefully I’m not oversharing, but a number of years ago, we got, we got a puppy, you know, and the minute I laid my eyes on that puppy and we adopted him, like I fell head over heels in love. And so I sort of expected that to happen with kids and it, to be quite honest, it didn’t, and it wasn’t like the minute I laid eyes on them, the minute they came and lived, moved into our home, that I was head over heels in love with them because it was hard. And those first few months were just one of the most overwhelming experiences I’ve ever been through. And there were times where I thought to myself, why am I not in love with these boys? As much as I feel like I should, but, you know, I just put all that pressure on myself, but that love grew over time. And now, as I mentioned, I can’t imagine my life without them. And now they are my children. And now I, you know, like I said, they’re just, they’re, they’re my sons. And I, and I love them with all my heart, but it didn’t happen overnight. And so I think, and I don’t know, maybe it’s different because they were a little bit older. They weren’t helpless infants like a helpless puppy. But I think for me, I just, I, I probably put a lot of pressure on myself. And so I would encourage people to just take it one day at a time and it will happen.
Christy MacGregor:
Yeah. I mean, I remember with the twins, they arrived and I remember—then they were in the NICU for a little while, right? When they were born—and I remember kind of having that same feeling of “Am I having the right feeling here?” It’s almost like it’s a new relationship, right? Like you’re a parent, or you’ve never been a parent. And for me, I needed a little time to kind of fill in what that meant. So I can definitely relate to that, that feeling of should, you know, this like movie moment of loving love. And I think, you know, some parents do feel that, but it wasn’t my experience. And I, you know, think back on, you know, we would go home at night in the NICU, you know, we would leave them around 10 30 at night and go back at 7 or 7:30 in the morning. Right? But we would go home to sleep. And I remember it was hard, but I was able to do that. And now I think back on it and I’m like, “if it was now, I wouldn’t have left their bedside.” Right? I don’t know. It just like a different feeling grows over time. And however your family is growing, you should give yourself some grace and let that, that relationship build over time. Well, Matthew, thank you so much for sharing your story and for sharing your advice. I think this will be super helpful to parents thinking about growing their family through adoption and just parents generally right now. Um, I wanna make sure we have a chance to discuss also something that Family Equality has been sounding the alarm about and helping me to learn more about is a current threat to families like yours, which is the outstanding Supreme Court ruling in Fulton v. City of Philadelphia. So at a high level, it’s a case about whether government funded foster care agencies have a right to discriminate based on their religious beliefs. And the Supreme Court ruling could have broad implications beyond just the foster care context. As a little bit of background Catholic Support Services, CSS, is a faith-based foster care agency. They filed this lawsuit against Philadelphia about two years ago after the city told them that it had to comply with the city’s non-discrimination requirements or the city would invalidate its contract. And CSS is arguing that the city’s non-discrimination requirement violates its religious free exercise rights. So Matthew, could you share a little bit about the potential implications of this case? The Supreme Court oral argument was couple of weeks ago, so we don’t have the ruling yet and kind of what this could mean for families hoping to foster, to adopt depending on kind of what the ruling is here.
Matthew Ramsey:
Sure. And I think it’s important to start with the fact that there are well over 400,000 youth in the child welfare system across the country. And a number of those—about 20,000—probably age out every year of the system without ever finding a family or a home. And that extends well beyond the age of 18. When you’re 30 and you don’t have a place to go to a Thanksgiving that still hurts. Right? And so there are so many youth in the system who need permanent or temporary placement, and there are tons of LGBTQ+ individuals and families who are willing to be that home for them. And what’s happening unfortunately is that discrimination is getting in the way. So we have, uh, like Catholic Social Services, we have organizations—these taxpayer funded agencies—that are turning away families like mine because of their religious beliefs. And look, I’m not perfect. My husband’s not perfect. We’re not perfect parents, but who is? And that’s not to say that we can’t provide just as much love and support and stability as any other family out there. And when you have discrimination getting in the way, yes, it hurts people like me and my husband, but the people it hurts the most are these youth who are desperately looking for safe and loving homes. So with this situation, with the Fulton case, as you said, the oral arguments were actually the day after election day. So that was, that was quite a day for our Policy Team. And Family Equality has submitted an Amicus brief and really in our Amicus brief were a couple dozen stories of families. My stories included in there as one of the positive stories, but there are a number of other really heartbreaking stories of one for example, is of, uh, a teen who had been in the system for six years. And there was a family that tried to adopt him throughout that time. And the agency just never would do it. And they never were able to adopt him. There’s another situation where siblings were separated all because of this type of discrimination. And so with the Fulton case, we’re waiting to hear from the, from the Supreme Court. We’ll probably get a ruling sometime in the spring, and we’re waiting to hear how they rule on this case. And could it be narrow? Could it be broad? If it’s narrow, that means that they would likely look at this specific case between Catholic Social Services and the City of Philadelphia and determine if the contract has been broken or if they want to allow Catholic Social Services to continue doing their work and turning away, uh, families like mine. And, and by the way, it’s not just families like mine who are being turned away. It’s also, in other states as well, it’s people based on marital status. So sometimes if you’re single. Or your religion, if it doesn’t align with the religion of the agency. Or it could be race-based, it could be all sorts of things like that. And so it’s a slippery slope because this is not just about LGBTQ issues. This is about broader discrimination based on religious expression. And so we’re waiting to see how they rule on this. It could be ruled in our favor, which would be fantastic. I will be completely straightforward with you that we are not happy about the Supreme Court, the way it is currently constructed, because there’s not a lot of pro-equality Justices on the Court right now. And so we’re concerned about how they will rule on this case, but if they do rule against us, we hope it’s very narrow and it’s very specific to this case and that they don’t apply it to agencies across the country. Because if that happens, that would be devastating. And again, it’s a very slippery slope.
Christy MacGregor:
Can you share how listeners who are maybe, you know, hearing about this for the first time or newly engaged here could get involved and to help to support the work that Family Equality is doing in this space and more generally.
Matthew Ramsey:
Sure. And let me also just say that one of the ways we’re trying to counteract this type of discrimination in addition to submitting an Amicus brief for this case is we actually have a signature piece of legislation called the Every Child Deserves a Family Act, and we have received enough signatures to pass this through the House. We’re waiting to see what happens with the Senate, with this election. And we do now, uh, we, uh, have a pro-equality, uh, President ready to be inaugurated in January. So we’ll see where that all goes. But the Every Child Deserves a Family Act basically prevents taxpayer-funded organizations from discriminating against families like mine based on gender identity, sexual orientation, marital status, religion, things along those lines. And right now there are 11 States in the country that allow taxpayer funded agencies to discriminate against families like ours. Now that doesn’t mean that individuals who live in those states can’t—if they’re LGBTQ—can’t foster or adopt. But what it does mean is if they go to an agency that’s willing to discriminate against them, especially if they’re in rural areas, they may be left without options, and they may not know where to turn. And if they’re not in a populated area like Philadelphia…You know, there could, if you’re living in Philadelphia and Catholic Social Services turns you away, you may still have other options. If you’re living in other states and more rural areas, you may not. And again, there are so many children out there in the system who need homes, and if we’re turning people away, what does that do for those children? The other thing that the Every Child Deserves a Family Act would do is prevent conversion therapy within the system. So LGBTQ youth are over-represented in the child welfare system, and oftentimes they are placed in non welcoming or sometimes hostile homes and environments. And so we want to eliminate conversion therapy in the system entirely. If we’re able to get that passed, that would have sweeping national change. And so for, for the listeners, I would encourage you to visit familyequality.org, where you can learn a little bit more about the Fulton case. You can learn more about the Every Child Deserves a Family Act. You can take the pledge, which means that you will stand up in support of this—preventing discrimination, stand up in support of the Every Child Deserves a Family Act. And of course I would be remiss if I didn’t ask if people would donate to our work as well, because we are fighting for our rights every day in states and in Washington. And we are also working to support families out there to provide them the resources they need to determine how to form their families as well as to connect families that are existing and bring them together and share resources with them along those lines as well. So we would love any support that your listeners can provide.
Christy MacGregor:
Thank you so much, Matthew, and I’ll be sure to share in our show notes, links to these resources so people can find them easily. And we’ll share that out on our social as well when we, when this episode goes up. We are just going to take a quick break, and I will be back with Matthew and he’ll answer our five fun questions.
Christy MacGregor:
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Christy MacGregor:
Alright, I’m Christy. And I’m back with Matthew excited to get to know him and his family a little bit more through our five fun questions. So, first question is what is a parenting moment that you’re proud of?
Matthew Ramsey:
So our older son, he’s in fifth grade now, but when he was in second grade, he received an assignment to write about and draw about what makes his family unique. And of course, when he told me about it, I thought, well, this is obvious, right? You have two dads, you were a foster child, you were adopted all those sorts of things. Well, a couple of weeks later, he handed me the finished product. And what made our family unique is that we read Harry Potter together. (We finished the series since then, by the way.) We like to watch movies and we are all Steelers fans and watch the Steelers together. And what that said to me is what’s important to children is not that they were adopted or not that they have same-sex parents or LGBTQ parents or whatever the case may be. What’s important to them is the love that they receive from their family. And so that was a really, really proud moment for me.
Christy MacGregor:
I love that so much. And it’s also very helpful to me as a big Harry Potter fan. I was just talking to my husband, Ted, about when to introduce Harry Potter. He’s actually waiting to read it until the kids read it. He’s going to do it along with them. So do you start second grade or before?
Matthew Ramsey:
I must’ve been around second grade for him. And then it would have been first grade for his younger brother. I don’t remember exactly when we started, but the thing with the books is that if you kind of read them, like if you drag it out and read one per year, like the books are set up, then you’re okay. Because they get a little bit darker, every book. So the book, the first book isn’t too scary. It can get a little scarier as you go on. So…
Christy MacGregor:
All right. That’s good. That’s good. I like that to spread it out as well. That’s good advice. Oh, I love, I mean, I’ve read them all like multiple times. I’m a huge Harry Potter fan. So…
Matthew Ramsey:
Oh! And of note: The first three, if not now four books, you can get these beautifully illustrated hardback versions of the books. And because when we first got out the novel and showed it to our kids, and all they saw was just these walls of words, they were overwhelmed and like ran away. But when we showed them an illustrated version, they’re beautiful. They were totally into it. And of course the books are exactly the same, they just have these beautiful pictures in them. So that’s a good way to get the kids motivated.
Christy MacGregor:
That’s awesome advice. Thank you. What is a new, fun thing that one of your kids is doing?
Matthew Ramsey:
So there’s this free website called icivics.org. And our friends told us about it. We discovered this soon before the election, but what it is is it’s a website where they can go on and there’s a number of games, but the one that they played the most was setting up a presidential campaign. And they use the electoral college and they use the map of the United States. And you have to answer different questions about current issues. And if you answer them correctly, then it helps your campaign and you can spend game-related money on, you know, advertising or doing a campaign stop or doing polling or doing all sorts of things. And it’s super fun. And then your goal is to, of course win 270+ votes to win the election. You can pick…When you pick your candidate, you can pick their gender, their race, their slogan, all sorts of things along those lines. So it’s a really great way—it was especially great for my boys, right before the election—to have a good understanding of how the electoral college works and how that process works. So then when we were able to watch the real election, they understood what was going on. So it was really fun and really helpful.
Christy MacGregor:
What is a favorite family tradition?
Matthew Ramsey:
My family, ever since I was little, has had a family reunion practically every summer called Cousins Week. Um, I’m, I’m one of about 25 cousins on my mother’s side. And now we’re in the second generation of that. And soon after the boys were placed with us, we took them to Cousins Week. And we try to take them every year. We obviously weren’t able to do it this year, but, uh, we take them as much as we possibly can because having tons of loved ones and family around is, is special and it’s something they enjoy. And, uh, it’s important to them now as well.
Christy MacGregor:
What is a favorite piece of parenting advice?
Matthew Ramsey:
I try to do this every day if possible, and that is the start and end the day with, “I love you.” And also of course, sprinkle that in throughout the day. Especially, you know, if I get angry or if I lose my temper or if, if one of my kids has gotten into trouble, you know, and even when they’re in trouble or when I’m really—one of us is—really unhappy with them, we say, “Look, we’re not happy with the choices that you made, but that doesn’t change how much we love you.” And so I think that’s really critical and that’s something that we always put a big priority on.
Christy MacGregor:
Last question is, do you have a recommendation for our listeners?
Matthew Ramsey:
Well, in addition to the illustrated Harry Potter books, I would also say the book “1, 2, 3 Magic.” It’s a really good discipline advice book and it’s, it’s really structured so that you can do kind of it’s timeout based, counting based. So that’s the “one, two, three,” but I think the reason it’s successful is not only does it give you a way to discipline your child, but it gives you a way to do it in a manner that kind of hopefully takes some of the pressure off of you as the parent. Um, and, and sometimes takes that temper away from you as the parent when you’re, when you’re struggling and you’re fighting to kind of keep everything under control. Um, it’s a really good, great way of keeping things calm. And that’s, I think one of the most important things in parenting is trying to keep things calm when they are anything but. And if you are consistent with that, I think it can be very successful. Every parent, every child is different, so it may not work for everyone. But “1,2,3 Magic” was very successful for us.
Christy MacGregor:
That’s great. I would love to, I’m going to check it out. It’s nice to have a guidebook, you know, like something to lay out. So I always appreciate that. Well, thank you so much, Matthew. I really appreciate this conversation. I learned a lot and I appreciate you sharing your story and the broader implications of what’s going on right now. Can you let our listeners know where they can find you?
Matthew Ramsey:
Sure. So of course, once again, Family Equality: familyequality.org is our website. If you want to reach me directly, I’m at mRamsey@familyequality.org, or you can find me on social media, @SeattleMatthew on Twitter and Instagram.
Christy MacGregor:
Great. And I’ll be sure, as I said, to include links to the policy pages from Family Equality that we’ve talked about today. So that’s all we have for today. You can comment on today’s episode by heading to Calugo’s Instagram, which is @hicolugo. If you have a question, a topic you want us to discuss, or you just want to chat, you could also shoot me an email I’m at cpo@hicolugo.com. Thanks again, Matthew.
Matthew Ramsey:
Thank you.
Christy MacGregor:
Our producer is Zach Walker. Our music is isound planet and I’m Christy. From me and the entire Colugo team, thanks for coming on this adventure. We’ll be back next week. And until then, remember: You got this!
Emily McGranahan:
I hope you enjoyed the episode of “Today We Tried.” I know I really loved listening to it. You can listen to more episodes of “Today, We Tried” including one that I’m actually on wherever you listen to podcasts. You can learn more about Colugo at hicolugo.com. If you enjoy Outspoken Voices, please please rate and review us on iTunes and share the podcast with your friends. All of those things just really help to introduce us to more people and to get us out there to more LGBTQ+ families. And you can always reach out to us on the socials with episode ideas, or just to say hi. We are @familyequality on Facebook and Instagram and @family_equality on Twitter as always. Thanks for listening everyone.